NYC Protests

[PunjabiAssassin]

So lets hear some eyewitness accounts, anyone seen any yet? What did you think?

Ill start with my story. I saw one last night while walking through Times Square. I was a monthly event orgainzed by a group called Critical Mass which promotes bike use in the NYC and in general.

So I was sitting at Times Square when I heard a yellin and hollerin' coming from further down near the square... I walked a bit further and I first I thought it was a riot or something becuase there was officers everywhere stopping redicting traffic while alot the street was filled with people. The closer I walked I started to notice the bikes. The while a yell and a whistle blow they started (I guess they were waiting at a red light). There were hundreds of bikes!!

It went on for at least 45 mins! It was more like a parade than anything, with people yellin from the sidelines in support, it was a festive (sp) time.

I guess a hundred or so bikers were arrested, but I can tell you from where I was, any over reacting behavior was definitely coming from the cops. Everyone else was having fun. Problem was, that when the parade of bikes began to go through times square they let them go without regard to the traffic signals in an effort to get them out quickly. But towards the end of it, someone decided that now they had to stop at the red lights, and all of a sudden bikers were being yelled at to stop and some got pushed over!

I don't know about the Madison Square Garden side where most of the arrests took place, but Times Square was definitely cops behaving badly.

[Tara]

There is a major protest taking place in Midtown Manhattan tomorrow. Best to avoid driving in, or taking the PATH. If you must go in, take the ferry to Battery Park City, it's a nice six minute ride. On the other side of the river, you can catch a train, bus, or taxi to take you uptown.

[PunjabiAssassin]

Yeah I was planning on going to that... taking pictures... maybe I'll post some good ones later...

[Tara]

This just in from AOL:
NEW YORK (Aug. 29) - Bearing flag-draped boxes resembling coffins and fly-swatters with President Bush's image, more than 100,000 protesters peacefully swarmed Manhattan's streets on the eve of the Republican National Convention to demand that President Bush be turned out of office.

Flanked by police in riot gear, the protesters moved through the fortified city, loudly and exuberantly chanting slogans such as ''No more years.'' They accused the Bush White House of prosecuting an unjust war in Iraq, making the country poorer and undermining abortion rights.

There were no reports of major violence and about 100 scattered arrests.

Police gave no official crowd estimate, though one law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity, put the crowd at 120,000; organizers claimed it was roughly 400,000.

The march snaked in a circular route around midtown Manhattan, shutting down dozens of blocks and bringing out hordes of police in a city already girded against terrorist attacks.

At its height, the march filled much of the route, forming an enormous horseshoe of dissent in the heart of an overwhelmingly Democratic city.
''They chose New York, where they're universally hated,'' said writer Laurie Russo, 41, of the New York borough of Queens. ''They should have gone somewhere they're more welcome. They exploited 9-11 by having it in New York at this time.''

In the largest set of arrests, some 50 protesters on bicycles who stopped near the parade route were carted away in an off-duty city bus. Also, 10 people were arrested after someone set a paper dragon float afire near Madison Square Garden, site of the convention, and nine demonstrators tried to prevent the arrest, authorities said. The nine were charged with assault.

''There's been a few minor arrests,'' Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. ''It has been peaceful.''

Residents leaned from windows along the demonstration route to shout their support. Scattered opposition was visible only around Madison Square Garden, where the GOP convention opens Monday. Some early convention arrivals looked across police lines as demonstrators jeered them, shouting: ''Go home!''

''I hope this shows the world that they're not alone in their hatred of George Bush,'' said Alan Zelenki of Eugene, Ore., who planned for three months to attend this week's protests.

The causes varied as much as the people shouting support: immigrants' rights, gay rights, universal health care, the Palestinian cause, an end to the killing in Sudan. Tracy Blevins, a biomedical researcher who recently left New York for Houston, dyed her Maltese pink and carried the little dog in a baby pouch to advocate peace.

Some demonstrators batted around a 6-foot-wide inflatable globe. ''Dump Junior now,'' said one sign. Another echoed Democratic nominee John Kerry's Vietnam-era remark: ''How do you ask a soldier to be the last person to die for a lie?''

''It's to show the rest of the country that we're against the Republicans, and the rest of the world that George Bush doesn't represent everybody,'' said Mike Markel, 54, of the New York City suburb of Westchester.

The protest organizers, United for Peace and Justice, had sued unsuccessfully to force the city to allow a rally in Central Park. City officials said such a rally would damage lawns.

Earlier, ''Fahrenheit 9-11'' director Michael Moore told demonstrators that ''the majority of this country opposes the war.''

The majority never voted for the Bush administration,'' he said, ''and the majority are here to say, 'It's time to have our country back in our hands.'''

The protest followed several days of demonstrations throughout the city staged by an array of groups.

The most rancorous was Friday, when 264 people were arrested for disorderly conduct in a bicycle ride that snaked through the city and passed by Madison Square Garden.

Besides the United for Peace and Justice march, a number of other events were planned Sunday, including a gay rights demonstration and a vigil in Central Park by a group of Sept. 11 families opposed to the Iraq war.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg, in a radio address Sunday, acknowledged the intense feelings on both sides but said the convention was an important event for New York. He promised all-out efforts to ensure safety.

''We've put in place a security plan that is thorough, measured, and that protects the rights of convention-goers and protesters without unnecessarily getting in the way of New Yorkers as we go about our daily lives,'' Bloomberg said.


Punjabi,

Hope you got some good pictures to share with us. It looks like it was a giant protest.

[PunjabiAssassin]

Yeah I did! I'll post them on Yahoo later and provide a link.

I started out in the middle of the pack at Noon when it started. At 4pm there were people still at the starting point. I will def have to say there were probably closer to 400,000 people. I mean they kept coming and coimng! I ran out of battery life and came home, or would have headed down to Central Park for more pics.

[PunjabiAssassin]

Here are the pics!

http://photos.yahoo.com/punjabiassassin2002

[LostinLaMancha]

Thanks, they are a pretty good documentation. Please do not delete them. Excellent work.

[NewportLady]

Wow, Punjabi, that's a fabulous collection ---You captured the moment.

[Tara]

Great pictures, Punjabi. Truely impressive!
Have you been following the Republican Convention? I watched Rudy this evening, he got a standing ovation. He's a very effective speaker. Great rhetoric!

Thanks for sharing your pictures. :)

[Katie_Scarlett]

Does it bother anyone else that during the Democratic Convention none of the delegates were dogged or put upon by protestors, but at the Republican Convention the delegates are being harrassed by protestors? Is it me, or is this WRONG?

[@@di]

Does it bother anyone else that during the Democratic Convention none of the delegates were dogged or put upon by protestors, but at the Republican Convention the delegates are being harrassed by protestors? Is it me, or is this WRONG?

It doesn't bother me one bit. No one stopped protestors in Boston from hounding Democrats? Also if the Republican convention were held in Mobile, Alabama, I think the delegates might have had an easier time. I think its wrong that the Republican party is not "showing off" its true members. McCain, Guiliani and Arnie..come on. No one buys that. Where are Rohrabachers, Thurmonds and other disaffected loonies?

Just FYI, I am not affliated to any party. I am an issue-based flip-flopper :cool:

[Katie_Scarlett]

No one had to stop the dems from being harassed, because it would seem that either the republican protestors in Boston had the good sense not to harass them OR the police kept them far enough back. In NYC, the police are trying to keep the crowd controlled, but these people are a little bit out of control.

I'm registered republican, but I'm very much libertarian. I will vote for whomever is closest to my views - economics being my biggest thing.

[Nic]

This week's Economist said, as part of a damning review of Bush's presidency: "What is conservative about allowing government to grow faster than under Mr Clinton? What is humble about announcing that you are trying to introduce democracy to the Middle East? Where is the compassion in his support for a federal ban on gay marriage, the limitations on stem-cell research or his other moves to accommodate the zealots of the Christian right? "

Katie, if people aren't going to protest about a leader like Bush, what would wake them up?

[Katie_Scarlett]

I don't mind protesting, that's not my point. I think protesting is a fundamental freedom that this country is based upon - however, I do think harassment goes too far. To harass delegates, to put a plainclothes officer in the hospital - it's gone too far.

The Economist is a good publication- even if it swings way left :)

[Nic]

You think? How?

[Sonia]

I agree with you Katie,

While peaceful protest is a right guaranteed by the constitution, harassing delegates is not. It's not only wrong to harass these people, it's also illegal, and a matter for the police.

[Katie_Scarlett]

Nic-I think the Economist is left leaning because in every article I've read in it, it enjoys pointing out a lot of flaws in the US. I know it's not a US magazine, so I guess it's hard to qualify it as left leaning based on this, but it was definitely more pro-US when Clinton was in office.

Then again, as I said, I have read maybe a handful of articles over the years.

[@@di]

Agreed Katie, knocking a police officer uncon. is not really sign of protest. Its just stupidity. I hope those involved are suitably punished.

I don't think the Boston PD would have coralled protestors during the Dem Conv.

Being a long time reader of the Economist I wouldn't say that they are left leaning. They are pro-business, pro-free-trade and certainly fiscally conservative mag. It is hard to dispute the fact that a Repub. prez is acting unlike any Repub. prez before him. I have heard the argument "The war on terror changes everything", but I somehow don't buy it. Bush is keeping the Fed. budget under wraps until the election and I am sure he is going to cutting budgets for virtually every dept incl. Homeland Security.

On another note, what do Libertarian stand for, economics, health care etc.?

[Katie_Scarlett]

Libertarians want it all - the social policies of the liberals (gay marriage is okay, pro-choice etc), and the fiscal policies of the conservatives- free trade, capitalism, reduction in welfare. Unfortunately, you can't balance the budget that this could create. :)

I think if you think you're a moderate republican, you have a lot in common with a libertarian.

[@@di]

Sign me up...oh do you belive in a complete separation of church and state..if so you have a new member :)

[Nic]

I read the Economist every week and rarely disagree with its viewpoint, and I love its humour. Everyone seems to think it is anti-them, anti-Italian is a common rant, anti-Africa, anti-China.. anti-America if you like, but my own experience is that, other than supporting its economic line, it tends to takenations mostly to task for selling out their own polices - hence the position on Bush. Having said that I was totally anti the Economist's policies on Iraq and am livid with its editors for not having the humility to admit they were wrong by their won criteria.

[Katie_Scarlett]

I would imagine the views of the libertarians (why do I almost write librarians every time?) would be yes, complete separation. But I wonder how you do that? I mean, do we change our money, our oath at court, our pledge of allegiance? Do we work on Christmas and Good Friday and Yom Kippur? Does the mail start getting delivered on Sundays?

[Katie_Scarlett]

Sorry to double post- Nic, I think you're on to something there! I really do.

[PunjabiAssassin]

I was walking near Midtown tonight, stopped at a Deli. While I was there a suited Repub. Del. came in. Boy did he get harrassed. I encourange all of you to at least one day go out there JUST TO SEE IT. I mean, its insane. The police are insane the protesters are too!

It seriously is almost frightening! So many police light, so many police officers, streets blocked off, random cars blazing through section followed by a few undercover police cars. Its almost as if a terrorist struck and they are trying to rush the delegates out. It's almost chaos.

I'm gonna head down there on Wednesday during Bush's session so i can take more pics, see if the protesters come up with new ways to force the Delegates to hear them.

If I was a Rep. Delegate, from anywhere but here, and had to go through the war zone that is down there, I would be freaked out, and when Bush gave his we are under threat speech, you bet I'd buy it. Delegates are harrassed at every cornor they go, and police rush them through the city like slowing down might bring an assassin's bullet! I'd be one scared Delegate, convinced more than ever Bush is the right choice.

I fear that if the protesters feel that their march and these harrassments are not working, they will up it a notch. I haven't been watching T.V. but I hope the News isn't calling the Protesters ineffective even if they are. It will only frustrate them to do bigger things. In my humble childish opinion :)

[PunjabiAssassin]

Oh, and the blimp you see in the pics was the one borrowed by the NYPD to monitor the protests. If you all didn't get that :)

My personal favorite one, "That's ok Mr. Ashcroft, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway!" hehe :D

[Nic]

My experience of violent protest is that the primary audience of the protestors is their own constituency, not those people they nominally protest to/against. It re-inforces beliefs amongst the protestors (and a sense of justifiable outrage) and forces people in the middle to choose, increasing polarisation further. Unfortunately the middle ground comprises an enormous number of people, and it only needs a few to choose violence to create a disproportionately nasty situation. And it then escalates. The only way , I think, to head off this spiral of extremism and alienation is to engage and pacify the protestors. Some might think that's playing their game, some might think it is un-necessary compromise, but you only have to look at Chechnya and Israel to see what happens if you play hardball all the time with dissenters.

[@@di]

I would imagine the views of the libertarians (why do I almost write librarians every time?) would be yes, complete separation. But I wonder how you do that? I mean, do we change our money, our oath at court, our pledge of allegiance? Do we work on Christmas and Good Friday and Yom Kippur? Does the mail start getting delivered on Sundays?

Good point Katie. I think common sense should prevail.

On the money issue: God is such a generic term. I would be concerned if it said "In Jesus We Trust" or "In Yahwah We Trust" or "In Vishnu We Trust".

On pledge: Isn't the whole point of the pledge to show that we are a part of a society/community? In fact I think I more people should pledge allegiance to the flag/country. This shouldn't you stop questioning things or being aware. But if the pledge started to say hateful things about certain kind of people/culture/race, then its becomes a problem.

On holidays: I think the American worker works too hard as it is. I am all for more holidays. I am appalled @ stores like Walmart that are open even on Christmas Eve. I digress, if i lived in Saudi Arabia [I hope that never happens, no alcohol, no bars, no women in skirts and belly shirt AAAAH], I am not going to complain about working on Sunday [weekend = Fri and Sat].
In a pluralist society, the majority religion will always more holidays. As long as I am able to take off for my religious holidays I am fine with Christmas, Yom Kippur. I only worried about govt banning holidays or celebrations.

Ultimately I want a govt that will not force religion down my throat or make decisions for its citizens based on a particualr religious affliation.