Letters from Vivien

[Sonia]

I was notified earlier by one of the Business Owners that someone claiming to be the President of Newport's neighborhood association has been sending out letters to business owners in the area, introducing himself as the president of Newport's neighborhood association. Although we understand an individual, Robert Vivien, who lives in public assisted housing in Newport has been claiming he has an association here, he is not representative of Newport, and completely ineffective in our community.

For your information, Newport's only neighborhood association, is the Newport Waterfront Association Inc.("NWA"), which has been accepted by management to speak for residents. In addition, we have incorporated a second organization, the Our Service Mark OSM Inc. (OSM), which deals with special projects. Mr. Vivien is unaffiliated with either of these two corporations.

One last thing, as a publicly assisted tenant, Mr. Vivien's interest are clearly not the same as the interests of the residents of the Condos or market driven apartments in Newport, in fact, his agenda would be quite the opposite. We want to discourage residents from being fooled by Mr. Vivien into getting involved with him.

Mr. Vivien has a history of misleading Newport residents and the public. The business owner we spoke to discarded the letter, and we hope anyone else receiving such a letter, does not get pulled into Vivien's deception, and does the same.

[shaolin1]

...here we go again...

[Lisa]

shaolin1

The truth is moderate income housing is publicly assisted housing. As a Condo owner, I agree with Sonia that people who live in publicly assisted housing have different interests than people who own condos. Remember, it's our property taxes that pay for services Vivien is demanding. Personally, I think Robert Vivien is a fruitcake, and crinch at the thought that he may be claiming his group is representative of the Newport Neighborhood, but I also consider him harmless. However, he certainly doesn't represent the views of owners at the Monroe.

[msion1]

The Vivien bashing gets tiresome. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Add a "Mudslinging" Forum for these types of messages.

[Sonia]

msion1,

Different strokes for different folks. The model racks are in, I am about to go over to the office to select the best model for us. Since this was your idea, if you would like to help, walk over to the office. You can call them to let you in, 626-2056.

[wired]

shaolin1

The truth is moderate income housing is publicly assisted housing. As a Condo owner, I agree with Sonia that people who live in publicly assisted housing have different interests than people who own condos. Remember, it's our property taxes that pay for services Vivien is demanding. Personally, I think Robert Vivien is a fruitcake, and crinch at the thought that he may be claiming his group is representative of the Newport Neighborhood, but I also consider him harmless. However, he certainly doesn't represent the views of owners at the Monroe.

just curious about the latest figures on how many newporters rent versus how many own?

and how exactly is the moderate income housing "publicly assisted" - i thought Lefrak was required to provide a certain number of apartments to moderate income tenants, but i have never heard that Lefrak receives money from public agencies.

to think, even more taxpayer dollars going into jamie's hands? :Tara.badi

[Sonia]

Wired,

Yes, as incredible as it may seem there are a few people living in Newport who pay less than $1,000. a month for government subsidized two bedroom apartments. In total there are around 200 units, studios, and one, two, and three bedrooms in this program. The apartments are located on lower floors, I believe from either seven or nine down, but they have the same layouts as other similar apartment in the same line, and in the same building. All of these apartments are located in the Presidential Plaza complex, none in Towers of America. These units are few in number, and represent around 4% of all the apartments in Newport. Newport also has about 5 - 6% Condo units, and the remaining 90% represent market driven apartments.

[Bob1]

I heard this program is under a government affordable housing project, agreed to by Lefrak Senior almost 20 years ago, when he was first starting to develop Newport. At the time, it was hard to get people to rent here.

[wired]

Wired,

Yes, as incredible as it may seem there are a few people living in Newport who pay less than $1,000. a month for government subsidized two bedroom apartments. In total there are around 200 units, studios, and one, two, and three bedrooms in this program. The apartments are located on lower floors, I believe from either seven or nine down, but they have the same layouts as other similar apartment in the same line, and in the same building. All of these apartments are located in the Presidential Plaza complex, none in Towers of America. These units are few in number, and represent around 4% of all the apartments in Newport. Newport also has about 5 - 6% Condo units, and the remaining 90% represent market driven apartments.

i understand that there are moderate income apartments in Newport. it is common in this era of rampant overdevelopment for municipalities to force developers to agree with some exactions for the greater good of the community. these are often in the form of a percentage of apartments that are reserved for moderate or low income tenants who qualify.

the mere fact that Newport has apartments that are set aside for qualifying tenants below a certain income threshold does NOT mean that these apartments are "government subsidized".

so, i ask again, which government agencies subsidize the Lefrak organization, if they are in fact truly subsidized? because unless Lefrak receives a payment from some entity other than the tenant in the apartment, it is incorrect to characterize the apartment as "government subsidized".

interesting, if these figures are accurate, why shouldn't the 4% of apartments occupied by moderate income tenants have as much of a voice as the comparable (5 to 6%) condo-owning population?

and no, this isn't a semantic exercise. it's about accuracy and honest communication of information.

[Sonia]

The mere fact that Newport has apartments that are set aside for qualifying tenants below a certain income threshold does NOT mean that these apartments are "government subsidized".

Wired,

You are mistaken. These are government subsidized apartments, not the city council telling Lefrak to set some apartments aside for moderate income tenants. Lefrak was COMPENSATED for the subsidized apartments, but not by Jersey City. The apartments are indeed publicly assisted. The difference between the rent Robert actually pays, and the market value of his apartment has come out of the public purse.

Your real question here is how much money or value did the Lefrak organization receive for Vivien's apartment, and who gave it to Lefrak. How much came from Vivien? and, how much came from someone else? Instead of demanding information on this board, you will have to direct your questions to Jamie Lefrak or Fermin Garcia, and ask them for this information as well as the name of the government agency that funds this program.

Personally, I don't care who funds it, my point is that Vivien's interests, are clearly different from the interests of the Condo owners, and residents of the market driven apartments, and that is true.

Further, once more you are taking my posts out of context. No one has said Robert can't have a voice in Newport, just that his agenda is different, which it clearly is. As for your question, why can't moderate income tenants have as much of a voice as Condo owners, I would surmise it's because Condo owners are investors in Newport. They own property in Newport as well as shares in the Newport community, which is essentially private property owned and managed by the Lefrak Organization.

[Lenin]

These are government subsidized apartments,


That is a ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE...and from someone who should know better! What is your motive, to impugn Robert Vivien?

If anyone doesn't believe me, then call HUD and ask about the government sudsidized apartments at Newport in Jersey City...they will tell you point blank that there are NONE! I've DONE it. The only person being sudsidized at Newport is LEFRAK in the form of it's local tax abatements and those tax abatements are NOT tied to "moderate rent apartments" becasue they apply to even the priciest of buildings like the SHORE.

Very simple Lefrak was given a $40 Million grant to make these 200-odd apartments affordable by community standards...that's $200,000 per apartment, more than enough to have BOUGHT them in 1987 and GIVEN them away.

[Sonia]

Lenin,

Even if we accept everything you say, they are still publicly assisted apartments. The fact is the govermnet gave Lefrak money for the use of the apartments, in this case for moderate income as opposed to lower income tenants.

One other thing, the government did not buy these apartments, my understanding is there is a 20 year limit to the program. Twenty years ago, the area was starting to develop, and Lefrak was having difficulty renting these apartments. As such, he would have welcomed the government's assistance. Today, all those apartments would fetch a market rate without any difficulty.

Nevertheless, they are not government owned, they are government subsidized.

The definition of a subsidy:


to contribute money to somebody or something, especially in the form of a government grant to a private company, organization, or charity to help it to continue to function

[aleksandreH]

Just curious (since you brought it up in the OP) - do you rent or own?

I sublet.

[Lenin]

By the standards that "subsidized housing" is the proper definition for all housing for which the government provides any beneffit, then every apartment at Newport is thus "government sudsidized" and that includes the condos in the James Monroe, the Shore North and South...yes and even the "palacial" Towers of America.
And every other building on the waterfront with the sole exception of Avalon Cove, which I think was built without the "govenment subsidy," aka, tax abatements.

Yep, by your standards Sonia, you are living in welfare housing.

In common parlance, "Government subsidized apartment" refers to a process where one's income determines one's rent to the tune of 30% of such income. It goes by several names the most common type being Section 8 housing. The tenant pays his 30% and the government pays the rest up to a "fair" market value. There is no such housing at Newport.

Newport tenants are no more subsided than tenants in Rent Stabilized Apartements in New York or indeed in the rest of Jersey City...the rent has an upper limit...PERIOD. It's called Rent Control, Rent Stabilization, or Rent Levelling (as in Jersey City.) Many cities have such controls to prevent gouging of tenants in a tight market.

Basically a rent subsidy is a payment made to a landlord for a tenant of limited means so that the total the landlord receives allows him to make a profit, sometimes a hefty one. Other things migh RESEMBLE a rent subdiy or SEEM LIKE a rent subsidy but they are not, in fact, RENT SUBSIDIES.

Sonia,
Admit it, you got wind of Robert Vivien starting up the OSM and THEN you tried to outrun him to the state office to steal the name. You know that's what you tried, we all know that's what you tried...why not be honest and tell it like it is. Nothing is served by talking around that point.
Until Robert Vivien started collecting petitions there was NO such thing as the Neport Neighborhood Associaltion.
Why go on with this; we now have two organizations "representing" residents at Newport (or the Waterfront, or "the NEIGHBORHOOD" or what have you) to some degree or another. Residents interested in accomplishing what the landlord WON'T will have to choose which organization can help them the most.
Accept that fact and move on.

p.s. It would seem clear from this discussion that anyone with a moderate income apartment has a fairly clear choice.;):D

Is there a possibility of the two of you combining, both relinquishing your PRESIDENCIES, and have a Newport-wide election to elect officers to the joint organization, perforce larger and speaking with a louder voice.

[Sonia]

Wrong again, Lenin,

I am not living in a welfare apartment.With regard to your first assertion, Towers of America, and the other market driven apartments, are not government subsidized. My apartment goes for $2,000. a month, and the government has never contributed a penny to reduce my rent, I pick up the entire tab each month, as do the rest of the market driven tenants in Newport for their apartments. A similar government subsidized or "moderate income" apartment in Newport runs for about $900, or less than half of a comparable market driven apartment. The moderate income apartments in Newport are publicly assisted because Lefrak received money from the government specifically to rent them at a lower than market rate to tenants in a lower income bracket, close to 20 years ago. Moreover, the point that's being made here is that market driven renters and condo owners have a different agenda than the moderate income renters. Condo owners, in particular, should have an interest in seeing their property values increase by making ALL apartments in Newport market driven units.

As for your second assertion, let me make it clear to you, that Newport's only recognized neighborhood association is the NWA. If you don't believe me, ask Jamie Lefrak. The NWA has existed in Newport for eight years. Robert Vivien tried to get on our board, but was rejected by ALL the trustees because of his character issues with both the NJ Bar Association, and in Newport. In addition, at all times, he made it clear that he wants to run for office, and saw the association as a springboard to his political aspirations. Simply put, he was not perceived as someone with a sincere interest in helping the community.

Robert then choose a name similar to the NWA's, clearly in order to confuse our membership and other people in the community. Several people, including people in government, have already said they were confused. I never stole anything, we were first in incorporating the name Our Service Mark OSM, which is a legitimately owned corporation. The law is very clear, our name reservation in February supersedes Robert's incorporation in March. Moreover, the name is so common, that it makes no sense to argue about it. We have retained counsel, and obtained copies of all the documents Robert filed with the state; and, believe he misrepresented information to the state as well. We are ready to go to court.

The NWA has been Newport's neighborhood association, for the last 8 years, and is doing a great job! An example, post 9/11, NWA was one of the first organization to form a Citizen's Corp Council through FEMA. We urged management to train staff through the Certs program. Management listened, and this weekend people throughout Newport experienced the results of that training. Many of the high-rises in our area had to wait 48 hours to get water, but Newport had hot water with 24 hours because of the expertise and training of our staff, and General Manager. I will speak more to this issue later, on a separate thread.

As for Robert accomplishing anything with the Landlord, so far he hasn't accomplished anything period.

Of course, moderate income tenants are always welcomed to join the association. No resident is excluded from joining the NWA. All one needs to do is fill out the form to "join NWA" on the top of the page. As a matter of fact, the issues we address are mostly raised by members of the association. So if you have an issue, you would like us to get involved with, you should be a member,

Further, back to Robert, he withdrew his membership from the NWA, as have members of his group. As such, we no longer consider them members in our association, and especially have no interest in associating with Robert, much less in "combining" with him. Our association is structured pursuant to our bylaws. We have no interest in amending our election procedures to accommodate your agenda, as far as we're concerned Newport only has one neighborhood association, the NWA, and it should be clear, we are the voice of Newport.

[wired]

Wrong again, Lenin,

I am not living in a welfare apartment.With regard to your first assertion, Towers of America, and the other market driven apartments, are not government subsidized. My apartment goes for $2,000. a month, and the government has never contributed a penny to reduce my rent, I pick up the entire tab each month, as do the rest of the market driven tenants in Newport for their apartments. A similar government subsidized or "moderate income" apartment in Newport runs for about $900, or less than half of a comparable market driven apartment. The moderate income apartments in Newport are publicly assisted because Lefrak received money from the government specifically to rent them at a lower than market rate to tenants in a lower income bracket, close to 20 years ago. Moreover, the point that's being made here is that market driven renters and condo owners have a different agenda than the moderate income renters. Condo owners, in particular, should have an interest in seeing their property values increase by making ALL apartments in Newport market driven units.



That's not true, Sonia. Lenin's post accurately describes the process by which Lefrak structured his real estate holdings, and the way the moderate-income apartments fit into the bigger picture.

The moderate income apartments were merely an additional developer exaction imposed on Lefrak in order for his zoning amendments and tax abatements to be approved by the city. No sum of money was handed over to the Lefrak organization to "fund" or "subsidize" these apartments. The same tax abatements that keep your rent from being $2,500 instead of $2,000are what keeps the below-market rental units at their rent. It is the price developers pay to build.

What's more disturbing is your intent behind using the term "government subsidized" to malign members of the Newport community. And you accuse others of "misleading"? Indeed.

[Sonia]

The moderate income apartments were merely an additional developer exaction imposed on Lefrak in order for his zoning amendments and tax abatements to be approved by the city.
Wired,

WRONG. I understand Newport received $40 million dollars from the Federal government, not the city, and not as a result of anything imposed by the city for zoning or tax abatements. But, please do take up the issue with the Lefrak organization, as you are wasting my time with your constantly erroneous argumentative posts. Please get your facts straight.

One other thing, Vivien takes the prize for misleading and outright lying to tenants, the courts, the state of New Jersey, and just about everyone else we know in Jersey City. We are not maligning him, we are telling the truth.

With regard to everyone else, no one is maligning the rest of the moderate income tenants. We are explaining the situation, and raising the point that as government subsidized units, they have different concerns than the rest of us. I hope that's clear.

[Lenin]

they have different concerns than the rest of us.


Sonia,
Since you brought up the subject, would you care to AMPLIFY what are the different concerns that people paying around $1000/month have as opposed to those paying around $2000/month?

[Sonia]

Lenin,

Don't tell me you can't figure this one out. The answer should be apparent.

[wired]

Lenin,

Don't tell me you can't figure this one out. The answer should be apparent.


it's a tautological anthem you repeat often, Sonia, that moderate-income tenants' interests are so different than market-rate tenants' interests. if it's so "apparent" then why not stand by your word and substantiate your theory, for those of us who "can't figure this one out"?

[Sonia]

Because we don't want to alarm anyone. Besides, it's premature to post it.

Now, I really have you intrigued. :Tara.sad6

[shaolin1]

Lenin,

Don't tell me you can't figure this one out. The answer should be apparent.

I apologize for my ignorance, but it is not apparent to me. I would assume they would want a nice, peaceful, and safe living environment. I would think that all people would.

If a moderate income tenant were not able to live in Newport, and were forced to reside in the ghetto, I don't think that their interests would entail maintaining high levels of crime and such...

really, i don't get it. maybe my lack of high level education is not allowing me to follow...

[msion1]

I have a pretty high level of education and I'm not following either.

[Sonia]

Not to worry Msion1,

You don't need to follow. Tenants living in market driven apartments need not concern themselves with this matter.

[xist]

Sonia, if you're paying $2000 p/m for a 25th floor river view apt in East Hampton, you're paying below market rate. (Or I'm being seriously over-charged for a higher floor in the same building).

As a market-rate renter, often I find my requirements are not in agreement with yours, and ideas that Robert Vivian has proposed (even if they don't come to fruition) such as trying to convert the PA pier into a park would be great for the neighborhood.

[wired]

Not to worry Msion1,

You don't need to follow. Tenants living in market driven apartments need not concern themselves with this matter.


Wow. That's pretty bold, dictating to a large group of people what matters they "need not concern themselves with".

:Tara.badi

[Sonia]

Xist,

First, $2,000 is the market rate for my apartment. There are many factors that go into determining the rate of each apartment, such as size, date of occupancy, how many times it's been turned around, etc. I have a large one-bedroom, but I may be living in my apartment for a longer time than you are living in yours.

The idea for a pier park was proposed years ago, way before Vivien even moved to Newport. He is most definitely not the originator of the idea. The NWA was holding meetings with county and city officials concerning this issues years ago, and if you look at both the new and old NWA web sites, you will note that park development has all along been one of our initiatives. Vivien probably just took the idea from our website.

In any event, the Port Authority has made it clear to us, and also to him, that there are no plans to build a pier park on that property. The truth is Robert has had limited communication with them in the past, and no communication after he was told that there would be no park. However, he continues misrepresenting to this community that there are plans for a pier park on that location.

The PA does have plans to repair the pier for the use of it's own vehicles and staff. However, the public will not be given access to the pier for security and safety reasons. My own sense is as long as there is a threat of terrorism in this area, and that may take generations, the PA will not convert the pier into a park, preferring to keep the public at a distance.

One other thing, Let's get something straight, Vivien doesn't care that he's proposing something he knows won't come to fruition, he just wants to get elected to office, and he will tell you, and promise you, whatever you want to hear in order to get your vote. Too bad for you, but he won't deliver.

[xist]

Market rate for your apt is the amount it would rent for should it be vacant today. It has nothing to do with date of occupancy or how many times it's been turned around. For a large, high-floor, river view 1-bed I'd guess the rental office could easily fetch ~$2300-$2400.

Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to pay market rate :)

[wired]

Market rate for your apt is the amount it would rent for should it be vacant today. It has nothing to do with date of occupancy or how many times it's been turned around. For a large, high-floor, river view 1-bed I'd guess the rental office could easily fetch ~$2300-$2400.

Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to pay market rate :)

yeah, check around on your own website for specific discussions on what "market rate" apartments are available, and on how rent increases are calculated based on the market, and not on set percentages. How long you've lived in your apartment should have nothing to do with it.

All that subject-changing aside, i'd like to steer the discussion back to what I was just ths morning told was a matter I "need not" concern myself with: please, somebody explain to me exactly how the interests of moderate income tenants conflict with my own "market-rate" interests. What differences are there to begin with, then let's talk about how these differences conflict.

This accusation is much stated, yet never explained on this board. So let's get to the bottom of it, without changing the subject, without dictating what i "need" and "need not" concern myself with, and without resorting to yet another diatribe against Vivien.

When you say this, Sonia:



One last thing, as a publicly assisted tenant, Mr. Vivien's interest are clearly not the same as the interests of the residents of the Condos or market driven apartments in Newport, in fact, his agenda would be quite the opposite.

..please explain what you mean.

sammlung04

[Sonia]

WRONG Wired,

If you signed a lease renewal almost two years ago, you would be paying less than someone who recently moved in, or recently renewed their leases. Renewals are based on %, and so is the rental increase for new tenants. Further, the phrase is "market driven"; and, my rent is based on market, although it may be slightly less than the current market level because of timing differences.

I don't recall telling you that you need not do anything. However, I do recall telling msion1 this morning that she need not worry about following this thread. Are you msion1? Your previous posts demonstrate, you've even refused to tell us if you live in Newport. So, why presume I should explain anything to you?

Are you a moderate income tenant in Newport? Or, are you claiming to live in a market driven apartment? And, exactly how many aliases do you have?

[shaolin1]

Wired,
Don't feel pressured to answer... if you are indeed a moderate income tenant, you might get treated differently... you know, b/c your interests are definitively different from all the normal people. i dont have the whole picture of this whole entire situation, but it sure seems kinda elitist from the outside...

[Sonia]

BUSTED! It's apparent, you are all one and the same. Now, the only question is who is the real person behind you. So, at least three aliases, or are there more?

[wired]

WRONG Wired,

If you signed a lease renewal almost two years ago, you would be paying less than someone who recently moved in, or recently renewed their leases. Renewals are based on %, and so is the rental increase for new tenants. Further, the phrase is "market driven"; and, my rent is based on market, although it may be slightly less than the current market level because of timing differences.

If you have a two-year lease, you may be paying below the current market rate for your apartment. That, however, doesn't make your statement "First, $2,000 is the market rate for my apartment" accurate. Nor does it make "how many times it's been turned around" have any bearing on what the current market rate for a rent increase will bring when your lease expires.






I don't recall telling you that you need not do anything. However, I do recall telling msion1 this morning that she need not worry about following this thread. Are you msion1? Your previous posts demonstrate, you've even refused to tell us if you live in Newport. So, why presume I should explain anything to you?

Actually, here's exactly what you said to Msion1: "Tenants living in market driven apartments need not concern themselves with this matter." I took that to mean what it says, that tenants living in market driven apartments need not concern themselves with this matter. Which I applied to myself. Draw whatever conclusions you would like regarding my own living situation from that.

Stop acting as if I am the only one asking you this question, Sonia. It was originally posed to you by Lenin, i echoed it, as did MSion1 and shaolin, and xist. Why is it so hard to offer an explanation, if you claim the answer is so obvious?



Are you a moderate income tenant in Newport? Or, are you claiming to live in a market driven apartment?

As you're so fond of saying, why should I explain anything to you? now i really have you intrigued.



And, exactly how many aliases do you have?

hahaha i'll take that accusation from whence it comes. feel free to ask sergei to scan my IP address and cross-reference it with all other users on NWA. it won't come up with any, because I only have one identity registered on this website, and only post under one username. Can you say the same?

Haha, so much for that whole "without changing the subject" idea. HAHAHAHA.

If this isn't an appropriate forum for asking you to explain what you claim to be an obvious concept, what forum would be more appropriate?

sammlung04

[Sonia]

Wired,

I just checked all three characters. Suffice to say, I'm okay with Msion1, and Shaolin1, but not with yours. Although it's understood certain T1s, AOL, and other users sometimes have the same, or very similar, IP addresses, you could be a second alias for either one of them. We do have a different way of checking this.

Next, let me clarify, when a new tenant moves in to an apartment, supposedly they lease the apartment at the market rate. The landlord is permitted to increase the rate for a new move-in to a market rate. Lease renewals, however, are not suppose to go over 10% rate increases, except in special circumstances, where the rates are substantially below market. The average increase in Newport is around 7%. So, if you live in your apartment for several years, renewing your lease every two years, eventually, you will be paying less rent than those moving into their units years after you. This does not mitigate the fact that you are still living in a market driven apartment.

Moderate income apartments are in a much different category. If you have questions about their rental procedures and circumstances, you should direct them to the management office. I understand Lorraina is the person to speak with.

Finally, as I indicated to Lenin, and you both, I am not obliged to answer your questions, (just as you are not obliged to answer mine.) It's enough to say the different concerns should be clear. If there comes a time when I believe it appropriate to post more on the subject, I will. There's no big THEORY involved here, just actual facts, which should enable you to draw a logical conclusion.

As for the alleged "diatribe" against Vivien, it was accurately and correctly posted on this board that Vivien is a fraud. He is not employed by Jersey City, as he claims to residents, and is not a lawyer. Moreover, the Port Authority has made it clear to us that no pier park is scheduled for construction anytime in the future. Newport would love to see a pier park, because, among other things, it would increase property values. In addition, the neighborhood badly needs a new park. However, I won't tell you the PA has plans for a pier park, when I know there aren't any. I prefer to tell it as it is, and maintain my integrity. You should appreciate the truth.

[Puneet]

Wired,
I just checked all three characters. Suffice to say, I'm okay with Msion1, and Shaolin1, but not with yours. Although it's understood certain T1s, AOL, and other users sometimes have the same, or very similar, IP addresses, you could be a second alias for either one of them. We do have a different way of checking this.


This is the height of paranoia. Does it really matter so much? Its not like Msion1, Shaolin1 or Wired have done performed some illegal activity or something deplorable.


Finally, as I indicated to Lenin, and you both, I am not obliged to answer your questions, (just as you are not obliged to answer mine.) It's enough to say the different concerns should be clear. If there comes a time when I believe it appropriate to post more on the subject, I will. There's no big THEORY involved here, just actual facts, which should enable you to draw a logical conclusion.

I agree you are not obliged to provide any information against your will to anyone. However Sonia, if you make a statement yourself, it is natural for people to request supporting information or clarification on it.

Nowadays I am typically a silent member of this board but this thread compels me to request the same clarification that four other members have requested (i.e. what are the differences between the interests of market-rate tenants and low/moderate income tenants).

Lets not have more handwaving or distracting arguments about aliases or Viviven.

[Sonia]

Puneet,

I will give you the same exact answer I gave the others, this is not something I am going to discuss on the bulletin board. There are obvious difference, if you can't figure them out for yourself ask the management office. That is all I am going to say for now, except possibly that in time all will be revealed.

Further, the statement I made concerns moderate income tenants, so why are you demanding an explanation about something that doesn't affect you? There is no explanation due you.

You should join interesting discussions on the bulletin board, instead of jumping in only to make demands. It's so much more productive.

[PTMG]

1) Sonia, if you're a responsible board administrator, you should not accuse anyone of posting under multiple user names unless you have actual proof. Making insinuations without proof to discredit someone is very unethical.
2) Sonia, I think you ought stop insulting entire groups of people to get at a person you want, whether they're moderate income renters or Paulus Hook residents.
3) Apparently, you're the only one who clearly sees the difference between the interests of moderate income residents and market renters. Since the puzzlement seems widespread, maybe you ought to consider explaining the difference to us dummies instead of evading the answer.

[PTMG]

I will give you the same exact answer I gave the others, this is not something I am going to discuss on the bulletin board.
Too late, you already have.

[Sonia]

PTMG,


1) Sonia, if you're a responsible board administrator, you should not accuse anyone of posting under multiple user names unless you have actual proof. Making insinuations without proof to discredit someone is very unethical.

1. My responsibility as a Board Administrator is to oversee the application of the rules of this board. I am required to use my discretion, and may delete or ban anyone who fails to follow the rules or tries to waste my time with repeated posts of the same content. With regard to matters of this board, You may not substitute your judgement for mine. There is no requirement that I substantiate or prove my actions. If there were, it would be very difficult to run this bulletin board. The fact is some of you have multiple user names. We are aware of this practice, but unless it gets to be an annoyance, we rarely do anything about it. However, I will raise the issue if I deem it necessary, and of course, you may respond. FYI, There are no standards or ethics with regard to the internet.


2) Sonia, I think you ought stop insulting entire groups of people to get at a person you want, whether they're moderate income renters or Paulus Hook residents.

2. How do you see me insulting entire groups of individuals, such as Moderate Income Tenants or Paulus Hook Residents? And, whom am I trying to get back at?

I have been fair in my assessment of moderate income housing, it is publicly assisted housing, or a/k/a government-subsidized housing. It is what it is. Vivien happens to live in publicly assisted housing, but his problems go much deeper than where he lives. I'm assuming you are talking about Vivien. There are many tenants who have reported misrepresentations by Vivien, who has claimed he is a lawyer, working for a law firm to some residents, and to others that he works for the city, and that he's negotiating with the PA for a pier park, and on and on. None of this is true, we have letters from the New Jersey Bar Association that state otherwise. Vivien is apparently unemployed, spends his days walking around Newport, misrepresenting himself to tenants, and thinks he is perpetuating his own spin, but we all know the truth has a way of surfacing.

As for the Paulus Hook Residents, how are they being insulted? And, who is the person you are claiming I'm getting back at? There is legitimate litigation going on in Superior Court right now, which has to do with bollards that are blocking a street, but I'm not at liberty to discuss it.


3) Apparently, you're the only one who clearly sees the difference between the interests of moderate income residents and market renters. Since the puzzlement seems widespread, maybe you ought to consider explaining the difference to us dummies instead of evading the answer.

3. If I'm the only one that sees the different concerns between moderate income tenants, and market residents, then you guys have a problem because I'm not about to discuss the matter further, or until the time is right. However, I will say, I don't underestimate your intelligence, and believe you can figure it out, with little effort. In the alternative, some say, ignorance is bliss.

BTW, I'm not the only one.

[wired]

BEST! POST! EVER!

:Tara.hail


PTMG,



1. My responsibility as a Board Administrator is to oversee the application of the rules of this board. I am required to use my discretion, and may delete or ban anyone who fails to follow the rules or tries to waste my time with repeated posts of the same content. With regard to matters of this board, You may not substitute your judgement for mine. There is no requirement that I substantiate or prove my actions. If there were, it would be very difficult to run this bulletin board. The fact is some of you have multiple user names. We are aware of this practice, but unless it gets to be an annoyance, we rarely do anything about it. However, I will raise the issue if I deem it necessary, and of course, you may respond. FYI, There are no standards or ethics with regard to the internet.



2. How do you see me insulting entire groups of individuals, such as Moderate Income Tenants or Paulus Hook Residents? And, whom am I trying to get back at?

I have been fair in my assessment of moderate income housing, it is publicly assisted housing, or a/k/a government-subsidized housing. It is what it is. Vivien happens to live in publicly assisted housing, but his problems go much deeper than where he lives. I'm assuming you are talking about Vivien. There are many tenants who have reported misrepresentations by Vivien, who has claimed he is a lawyer, working for a law firm to some residents, and to others that he works for the city, and that he's negotiating with the PA for a pier park, and on and on. None of this is true, we have letters from the New Jersey Bar Association that state otherwise. Vivien is apparently unemployed, spends his days walking around Newport, misrepresenting himself to tenants, and thinks he is perpetuating his own spin, but we all know the truth has a way of surfacing.

As for the Paulus Hook Residents, how are they being insulted? And, who is the person you are claiming I'm getting back at? There is legitimate litigation going on in Superior Court right now, which has to do with bollards that are blocking a street, but I'm not at liberty to discuss it.



3. If I'm the only one that sees the different concerns between moderate income tenants, and market residents, then you guys have a problem because I'm not about to discuss the matter further, or until the time is right. However, I will say, I don't underestimate your intelligence, and believe you can figure it out, with little effort. In the alternative, some say, ignorance is bliss.

BTW, I'm not the only one.

[shaolin1]

PTMG,
FYI, There are no standards or ethics with regard to the internet.


Wow, that's kind of a strong statement... does that hold true to personal ethics as well?

[Jeremyk]

Shaolin,

Please post the Standards of Ethics for the Internet, I can't find them. Perhaps, they are posted on one of the other Jersey City Boards.

[Sonia]

There is no set of personal ethics that apply universally, although there are principles, such as "thou shalt not kill" that most of us understand are morally correct. If you look at personal ethics as another way of saying "morality", then we are referring to the general expectations we have in our society, that is in terms of what we expect to receive from each other, such as concern for the well being of others, or basic justice, being fair, or preventing harm. Many of us have a sense of right and wrong, and lead our lives by an internal code of moral conduct. I presume this is what Shaolin means by personal ethics.

[wired]

PTMG,



1. My responsibility as a Board Administrator is to oversee the application of the rules of this board. I am required to use my discretion, and may delete or ban anyone who fails to follow the rules or tries to waste my time with repeated posts of the same content. With regard to matters of this board, You may not substitute your judgement for mine. There is no requirement that I substantiate or prove my actions. If there were, it would be very difficult to run this bulletin board. The fact is some of you have multiple user names. We are aware of this practice, but unless it gets to be an annoyance, we rarely do anything about it. However, I will raise the issue if I deem it necessary, and of course, you may respond. FYI, There are no standards or ethics with regard to the internet.




with that approach to leadership and responsibility, it's a probably good thing (for you) that you haven't ever had to stand before the NJ State Bar Association character committee yourself.

:Tara.sad6

[Lisa]

Wired,

You are comparing two different scenarios. As an Administrator of this site, Sonia has discretion in making decisions. She doesn't have to substantiate the basis of her decisions to you or other posters, nor does she have to discuss them with you.

I think this board is run like a business with emphasis placed by the Admins on what's best for the organization, and for them.

[Sonia]

Wired,

My leadership, and responsibiliy skills have been repeatedly tested and praised. Besides, admission to the state bar is not qualified or quantified by someone's leadership skills, the character committee rarely denies admission to applicants, and when it does, it's do to very serious transgressions, such as embezzling money from former employers.