PATH is PATHetic

[Floridian]

Well, PATH is doncintinuing service from Hoboken to WTC on the weekends. So to get to 33rd street, we now will have to go to Hoboken first. They claim it's to accommodate new construction at WTC. First the Newark to WTC is unaffected and no changes to the weekday service. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that most of the construction would happen during the week? This just sounds like they are saving money. I'm sure PATH won't run the train less than every 15 minutes. So, I guess we should expect to be crammed in.

[PTMG]

Where did you find this out?

[Floridian]

They were handing out flyers this morning...starts in two weeks.

[Stinky]

Well, PATH is doncintinuing service from Hoboken to WTC on the weekends. So to get to 33rd street, we now will have to go to Hoboken first.You mean the 33RD-JSQ train is going to take the "bounce" into Hoboken at all times on the weekend and not just from 7:30pm-9:00am?

And to get to the WTC we'd have to go to Grove and change?

That's a bummer! Did the flyer say how long they expect this to last?

[Humanoid]

I think the announcement was related only to the Hoboken-WTC service. According to the map on the other side of the handout, JSQ-33 route would also be affected. Confusing...

[smp9778]

I tend to believe that it is due to construction. They are starting construction on redeveloping the WTC soon. Who knows how long that will last, though?

If they are diverting the JSQ trains to Hoboken, then that is just about money, though. They built a turnaround at the Exchange Place station after 9/11. Hence, there is no need to run JSQ/33rd trains via Hoboken because they could just run a Hoboken-Exchange Place train, if needed.

Well, I know I'll be driving into the city on weekends from now on. If PATH chooses to inconvenience riders like this, they shouldn't start belly-aching when there's more traffic and pollution.

[Floridian]

Basically, ALL weekend long will be the weekend evening and overnight route. JSQ to 33rd street via Hoboken. If you want to go to WTC on the weekend, you'll have to go to Grove Street and switch trains. They claim it's construction, but the Newark to WTC is uneffected. Wouldn't PATH shut down both trains??? This smells of cost cutting all the way.

[ansky]

The weekend trains are going to be ridiculously crowded.

[renuka]

What about Weekday ? Any impact on the commute to 33rd st for work on weekdays?

thanks


The weekend trains are going to be ridiculously crowded.

[smp9778]

It may be that they are only using one side of the tunnel on the Exchange Place-WTC route, or something like that.

I am curious if they can't tell us how long this will last.

[GreenPlanet]

I can't imagine why they would cut service like this. It is already enough of a hassle to get back from the city on the weekends...you can either wait forever on the PATH platform (with hundreds of other people), and then get routed to Hoboken first, or pay $40 to cab it home...great deal, thanks PATH!

Honestly, I wish they would just raise the fare...if it's that hard to get a reasonable commute across the river, we'd be better off paying more to get something better. An extra few bucks a month for the PATH would be worth having a consistent, reliable train in place...and one that actaully functioned during the sparse amount of time so many of us have on the weekends...

GP - my point of view, do you agree or diosagree?

[smp9778]

I agree.. raise the fare if that means providing better service!

Although I suspect that this service change is truly related to construction. In the past week, I have seen jackhammering and heavy construction beginning at the WTC site.

[qwerty]

I agree.. raise the fare if that means providing better service!


There are others besides newporters who use the PATH. You might be able to afford a quarter or two in hike. Not everyone can

[Lenin]

THere's nothing aout this service change on the PATH website under "Service Updates????????

[renuka]

Also I haven't seen any flyers since Sunday late afternoon .. have they run out of them or are they only distributing the info via flyers only on weekends?

[itsted]

There are others besides newporters who use the PATH. You might be able to afford a quarter or two in hike. Not everyone can

Isn't your time worth something? Do you have as long as 45 minutes to cross the Hudson River on a Saturday or Sunday (most of that time waiting on platforms)? The train from Journal Square to 33rd Street doesn't just stop at Hoboken, it waits there 5-10 minutes. The connection at Grove Street to the World Trade Center takes as long as 15 minutes depending on the time of day. Over the seven years I have used PATH, I have seen nothing to indicate they give a damn about their riders.

[Mehean]

I noticed a poster up this morning in the Newport station... Kinda out of the way, wouldn't have seen it without looking for it. This is really going to be a pain! I wonder if they are upping the service to Journal Square, or will we still have to wait 30 mins?! Craziness... And now, without the ferry, we don't have any other options.

[qwerty]

Isn't your time worth something? Do you have as long as 45 minutes to cross the Hudson River on a Saturday or Sunday (most of that time waiting on platforms)?

Again, newport is not the only one using the PATH.

If that time seems that bad to you ( for the while when construction is on), why don't you take a cab to Manhattan?

A public service is supposed to be for the public. Not a privileged few.

Have you wondered how a family of 4 earning 35k or less survives?

[RiverRes]

The weekend service change has to do with the World Trade Center Memorial. Originally PATH was going to add a new 6th track at the WTC station, which would have allowed them to maintain regular schedules even while work on the Memorial was going on. But that track would have infringed on the Memorial site. According to The New York Times, PATH decided to scrap that extra track. I assume they were pressured into it by the Memorial people.

Here's the article which comes from the Times.

http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=15695

I like where it says:

[A PATH official] said yesterday that the authority would still be able "to minimize the disruption to the riding public."

So the minimal disruption appears to be our loss of the HOB-WTC train on weekends.

Personally, I'm tired of the Memorial folks dictating every step of the World Trade Center redevelopment.

[DogLover]

The weekend service change has to do with the World Trade Center Memorial. Originally PATH was going to add a new 6th track at the WTC station, which would have allowed them to maintain regular schedules even while work on the Memorial was going on. But that track would have infringed on the Memorial site. According to The New York Times, PATH decided to scrap that extra track. I assume they were pressured into it by the Memorial people.

Here's the article which comes from the Times.

http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=15695

I like where it says:

[A PATH official] said yesterday that the authority would still be able "to minimize the disruption to the riding public."

So the minimal disruption appears to be our loss of the HOB-WTC train on weekends.

Personally, I'm tired of the Memorial folks dictating every step of the World Trade Center redevelopment.


I think the Memorial people have every right to have a say in this. 9/11 was a horrible tragedy and a lot of people lost loved ones so if they want a say, then let them. Unless you lost a close loved one or friend, it isn't fair to judge the way they are handling this. If the Memorial will help them heal and will honor their loved one, then so be it. It's been almost 5 years and I think people are already forgetting the horror of that day.

[itsted]

Again, newport is not the only one using the PATH.

If that time seems that bad to you ( for the while when construction is on), why don't you take a cab to Manhattan?

A public service is supposed to be for the public. Not a privileged few.

Have you wondered how a family of 4 earning 35k or less survives?

Actually, I don't have to wonder about that because I grew up in such a family. When cutbacks are made in service they do not just effect the "privileged few." The effects are far worse on those who already feel out of the economic loop. Do you think anyone wants to endure spring mornings in the Grove Street station waiting for the crowded train from Newark?

Incidentally, the repairs could take two years. I wish I had cab fare for two years of weekends. I would happily use it.

[smp9778]

Does anybody know what frequency on JSQ-HOB-33rd trains will be for the weekend?

[smp9778]

Actually, I don't have to wonder about that because I grew up in such a family. When cutbacks are made in service they do not just effect the "privileged few." The effects are far worse on those who already feel out of the economic loop. Do you think anyone wants to endure spring mornings in the Grove Street station waiting for the crowded train from Newark?

Incidentally, the repairs could take two years. I wish I had cab fare for two years of weekends. I would happily use it.

I really think this debate is academic. It seems as if this issue is being driven by complaints of 9/11 families about a temporary track being built to accomodate construction at WTC.

[qwerty]

Actually, I don't have to wonder about that because I grew up in such a family. When cutbacks are made in service they do not just effect the "privileged few."

I wasn't talking about the cut backs, but the fare increase.

[itsted]

I wasn't talking about the cut backs, but the fare increase.

This is, as my former boss used to say, a "mute point," since there is no fare increase, only the service reductions.

[07310]

This is, as my former boss used to say, a "mute point," since there is no fare increase, only the service reductions.
There has been a subtle fare increase, with the old PATH cards you paid $24 and got 20 rides because they gave you a "bulk" discount which came out to $1.20 a ride, with the new machines which will dispense only metro cards you pay $20 and they add $4 more as a bonus but when you go through the turnstiles it deducts $1.50 per fare which breaks down to 16 rides. This comes out to $1.25 per ride for your $20.

[renuka]

Not really, if you continue to buy the PATH cards the rate is the same ... $1.20 for a 20 or 40-trip card... The Metrocard works the same way as it does on the MTA as well as the PATH, i.e., $2 per ride on the MTA subway and $1.50 for a PATH trip (these are the defaults) because you are simply adding X amount of money on your card. For instance the equivalent of a PATH card that is valid for 20 or 40-trips is the Monthly Metrocard where you are also given a discount to the default price of $2 per subway ride.


There has been a subtle fare increase, with the old PATH cards you paid $24 and got 20 rides because they gave you a "bulk" discount which came out to $1.20 a ride, with the new machines which will dispense only metro cards you pay $20 and they add $4 more as a bonus but when you go through the turnstiles it deducts $1.50 per fare which breaks down to 16 rides. This comes out to $1.25 per ride for your $20.

[renuka]

He might've meant 'moot' ;)
This is, as my former boss used to say, a "mute point," since there is no fare increase, only the service reductions.

[Stinky]

I sent an enquiry to the Port Authority about the weekend PATH service to Hoboken. Here's the response:

March 30, 2006
Mr. ---- ----
One River Court
Jersey City NJ 07310

Dear Mr. ----:

PATH is limited to one service entering and backing out of the Temporary World Trade Center Station while construction work begins in April.

Weekend service will be frequent, but we must offer JSQ - 33rd St. via Hoboken in order that passengers going between Hoboken and the WTC will be able to connect with the Newark - WTC train.

We do not know exactly when weekend service will be able to return to 4 lines.

We will have the website updated shortly.

Sincerely,

Joann Breslin
PATH Customer Service Unit

[itsted]

He might've meant 'moot' ;)


Yes, I believe he did mean moot!

[Stinky]

Personally, I'm tired of the Memorial folks dictating every step of the World Trade Center redevelopment.I'm with you. We, the taxpayers, bought off the 911 families to the tune of $1million per family. For that much money they relinquished all rights in favor the taxpayers who handed them the gold.

[qwerty]

Not really, if you continue to buy the PATH cards the rate is the same ... $1.20 for a 20 or 40-trip card... The Metrocard works the same way as it does on the MTA as well as the PATH, i.e., $2 per ride on the MTA subway and $1.50 for a PATH trip (these are the defaults) because you are simply adding X amount of money on your card. For instance the equivalent of a PATH card that is valid for 20 or 40-trips is the Monthly Metrocard where you are also given a discount to the default price of $2 per subway ride.

Either you did not read what he said, or you did not understand what he said.

PATH cards would gradually be phased out, and one would be buying a metrocard for the PATH trains, which offer you a lower discount and hence the subtle price increase that 07310 is talking about.

[DogLover]

I'm with you. We, the taxpayers, bought off the 911 families to the tune of $1million per family. For that much money they relinquished all rights in favor the taxpayers who handed them the gold.

Are you kidding me? So you are saying that $1 million dollars is 'buying' them off and is fair value for the lives taken? How insensitive can you be? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? I am sure if you asked any of the families of the victims they would rather have their loved one back than the 'gold' they were given. I hope one of your loved ones never has to go through what the victims went through and even $1million dollars is nothing compared to someone's life.

[Smurfy]

I'm with you. We, the taxpayers, bought off the 911 families to the tune of $1million per family. For that much money they relinquished all rights in favor the taxpayers who handed them the gold.

Not every family chose to accept the money. And for those who did, that money doesn't even come close to replacing their loved one - or the loved one's monetary contribution to the household

[DogLover]

Not every family chose to accept the money. And for those who did, that money doesn't even come close to replacing their loved one - or the loved one's monetary contribution to the household

I agree with you 100%......how people can be so insensitive is something I will never understand.

[Smurfy]

I agree with you 100%......how people can be so insensitive is something I will never understand.

I'm honestly baffled that anyone could connect the monetary settlement to our current PATH issues.

[DogLover]

I'm honestly baffled that anyone could connect the monetary settlement to our current PATH issues.

These people are complaining about minor inconveniences on the weekend....so they have to take another train and it will take a few extra minutes. BIG DEAL and if it's b/c of the WTC families opposition to the temporary track, then so be it, drop it and move on. The minor inconvienence of having to take a separate train does not even compare w/ the tragedy of 9-11. We are lucky to be alive and if I need to take an extra 15 minutes of my day to commute to NYC to pacify the families of the victims, then so be it. At least I am here......I am sure the families would rather have their loved ones here too.

[Smurfy]

Exactly ... So what if I'm a bit crowded or bored for slightly longer? So my errands take 20 more minutes, or I have more time to re-think the small fortune I'm tempted to blow in SoHo on any given Saturday morning.

In the grand scheme of things, we should just be happy that we're around to be annoyed.

* steps off soapbox *

[Stinky]

....So you are saying that $1 million dollars is 'buying' them off and is fair value for the lives taken?I didn't say it was fair value but I certainly feel that we have bought out any right they might have had.

Out of interest, why just the WTC families? Why not $1m for the family of every person killed on the street, for every traffic fatality, every shooting, every single avoidable tragedy?

[Stinky]

Not every family chose to accept the money.True, not all did. But many of those that didn't are suing the airlines instead.

[DogLover]

I didn't say it was fair value but I certainly feel that we have bought out any right they might have had.

Out of interest, why just the WTC families? Why not $1m for the family of every person killed on the street, for every traffic fatality, every shooting, every single avoidable tragedy?

Indeed, those are tragic incidences and I feel for their families, but the horror of 9/11 was a terrorist act on American soil. Nearly 3,000 hard working Americans were killed and The Twin Towers, a New York landmark, was destroyed b/c of an act against our country. They were the victims of terrorism and I do feel that the families are indeed entitled to whatever they get. So, they want a memorial? So, we are going to be inconvienenced a little bit....so what? We have our lives and that is the most important thing. I am sure these families would rather have their loved ones back than money or a memorial, but if the memorial is going to help them deal w/ the tragedy, then let them have it. What is the big deal? Are you that hardened to the suffering they have gone through? It amazes me that you have such little sympathy.....our country was attacked and you are more concerned with having to wait a few extra minuets for a train rather than remembering Americans who died at the hands of evil.

[Stinky]

...Are you that hardened to the suffering they have gone through? It amazes me that you have such little sympathy...Yep. It's almost five years since that attack and the time for dwelling in the past is over. It's time to dry the eyes, straighten the back, tighten the sphincter and look to the future. In short, get over it and move on!

[DogLover]

Yep. It's almost five years since that attack and the time for dwelling in the past is over. It's time to dry the eyes, straighten the back, tighten the sphincter and look to the future. In short, get over it and move on!

Maybe I am more sympathetic or compassionate than you, or perhaps I just have feelings. Or maybe you feel that way b/c you don't know anyone who perished on that day. I knew several people who died in the tragedy and have several friends who lost family members and loved ones and see them grieve every day of their life. Even if I didn't, I wouldn't condemn people for grieving the way they want. Ever hear the expression "Have a Heart"? Too bad you don't have one.

[Stinky]

Even if I didn't, I wouldn't condemn people for grieving the way they want.People can grieve any way they want, that's a personal issue but they should keep it personal and not impose their sadness and loss (and power/political agendas) on the rest of us who grieve in our own way.

Suppose every victim of a traffic accident was treated the same way. Give them $1m and make the spot where they died on the Turnpike or the Parkway "hallowed ground" so nobody could drive over it and people could visit it.

Why is the WTC so different? These are families of the victims not the victims themselves. What makes them so special (worth more than the families of the Oklahoma bombing victims for instance)?

What are we going to do in the future? Various government pundits have said that the next attack in our contry is a "when" not an "if". Have we set a standard (that a life is worth $1m and the relatives of the victim can decide what to do with the spot they died on and can get tax money for a memorial)? That's ludicrous!

[Smurfy]

The $1m pay-out was in exchange for them not suing the airlines, gov't, etc. In short, so the victims as a group would not bankrupt the country. NOT so that the rest of us can go about our lives with no reminder of the past.

And for the record - Oklahoma City has a memorial, as well.

[Smurfy]

Yep. It's almost five years since that attack and the time for dwelling in the past is over. It's time to dry the eyes, straighten the back, tighten the sphincter and look to the future. In short, get over it and move on!

Get over yourself. You're SLIGHTLY inconvenienced. Be grateful you're alive - and surrounded by loved ones. Quit dwelling on how other people are annoying you, and start focusing on how you can help ease others' pain and suffering.

Yeah, it's been five years. But the hurt doesn't go away.

[DogLover]

Get over yourself. You're SLIGHTLY inconvenienced. Be grateful you're alive - and surrounded by loved ones. Quit dwelling on how other people are annoying you, and start focusing on how you can help ease others' pain and suffering.

Yeah, it's been five years. But the hurt doesn't go away.


Exactly.....It's people like STINKY that remind us that the world can be full of selfish, umsympathetic people. STINKY almost seems to take pleasure in threads like these. Talk about annoying....

[Stinky]

But the hurt doesn't go away.True but it diminishes.

[Stinky]

STINKY almost seems to take pleasure in threads like these. Talk about annoying....Then reduce your annoyance by not replying to my posts.

And, yes, I do derive some satisfaction from showing you that there's another point of view, not just the soft, cuddly, touchy-feely one that you seem to favor.

[DogLover]

Then reduce your annoyance by not replying to my posts.

And, yes, I do derive some satisfaction from showing you that there's another point of view, not just the soft, cuddly, touchy-feely one that you seem to favor.

I understand when there is another point of view, however, when dealing with something like this, it would be more appropriate to keep your mouth shut than to diminish the suffering so many people are STILL dealing with and will contiue to deal with for the rest of their lives.

[Smurfy]

Then reduce your annoyance by not replying to my posts.

And, yes, I do derive some satisfaction from showing you that there's another point of view, not just the soft, cuddly, touchy-feely one that you seem to favor.

:eek: I think this is the first time I've ever been accused of being "Soft, cuddly, touchy-feely." In fact, I'm not being touchy feely, I'm being practical:

Those that accepted the money have held up their end of the bargain by not suing. Their emotional and financial responsibilities have thus ended, and their free to flex their collective muscle - as the saying goes - on non-related matters. Like the memorial.

We can all understand that you're annoyed, I think most people are - I'm just having a little trouble comprehending that you want the survivors to just **** it up b/c they got paid $1m to save our country the fiscal pain of infinite lawsuits.

[Stinky]

...however, when dealing with something like this, it would be more appropriate to keep your mouth shut than to diminish the suffering so many people are STILL dealing with...Suffering is already diminishing, it's a factor of time (if it's still as strong as it was four years ago then better psychiatrists are needed). For how long should we hold our breath and try not to upset anyone? It's over 4 1/2 years now. What's the cutoff? Is 5 years better? Is 6 years acceptable? How about 7?

[Stinky]

...I'm just having a little trouble comprehending that you want the survivors to just **** it up b/c they got paid $1m to save our country the fiscal pain of infinite lawsuits.Taking your points in reverse order:

I'm not sure what word your four splats represent. I've tried several possibilities (rude and not so rude) and it doesn't appear to make sense. Could you enlighten me please?

We, the taxpayers, saved the families the hassle of going to the courts. It's our money they took, not the airlines. That gives the taxpayers more rights over what should happen at the WTC site than those who took the money because their pain and suffering was bought and sold.

As for bailing out the airlines, that's a terrible use of tax dollars, proping up "for profit" companies.

[Stinky]

DogLover, Smurfy,

We've hijacked this thread long enough. Do have a last shot if you want but I regard the subject as closed (agree to disagree?) and I will not be replying unless it's on-point with the thread's subject.

Thanks for the discussion.

[Smurfy]

DogLover, Smurfy,

We've hijacked this thread long enough. Do have a last shot if you want but I regard the subject as closed (agree to disagree?) and I will not be replying unless it's on-point with the thread's subject.

Thanks for the discussion.

Drat. I was enjoying the civil debate ;)

The four asteriks in my above post stood in for su.ck. As in, you want them to just su.ck up their own interests to save the NJ community a hassle. I think it's a fair representation of what you've posted, no?

Oh, but the survivors could have sued the gov't for substantial money. Private security firms that train/place airline security. Airlines themselves. The list is pretty extensive. That's all I was getting at

[Floridian]

I still think PATH is lying about this service. They claim they can't pull a train in and out on the weekend due to the construction. The two trains run every 15 minutes, but they don't have a problem pulling the trains in and out during the week and they run every 5 minutes during rush hour. I will be amazed if the new schedule comes out and the JSQ to 33rd via Hoboken runs less than 15 minutes. All this is about is saving money. I think they are using the memorial as an excuse so no one will get up in arms about it.

[Stinky]

Floridian,
You have a point (unless they are starting weekend construction to minimize the impact). Any why can't they run all four lines? The only one that has to take a hit is the green line which would run from Hoboken to Newport and terminate at Exchange Place rather than continuing on to the WTC. The PATH ran that way from June 2003 (when Exchange Place re-opened) until November 2003 when the WTC station opened again (didn't it?).