Can the Arab world really be democratic?

[@@di]

In the lead up to the Iraq war I listened to a lot of what Tony Blair had to say about why he thought it was the "right war @ the right time".
Why Blair? Of all the leaders of the coalition he was the only one that could coherently communicate the reasons to go war. And more recently when I read that Afghan women are scared to vote, because if a woman dies outside the house it would bring shame to the entire family. The story gets more ridiculous, Afghan men want to proxy vote for their wives :confused:.

I also had an oppurtunity to read the UNDP progress report on the Arab world and development. It made for one depressing read.

In any case one question has always bothered me:
Can the Arab world really be democratic?
Or are they better off having leaders like in South-East Asia or Jordan and slowly move towards democratic instituitions?

After a lot of thought, I think the best way would be to have a progressive leader who could lead a country towards becoming a democracy. On paper at least it seems to me that democratic values and Arab-Islamic values [as opposed to South-Asian or South-East Asian Islamic values] are as divergent as they come.

Thoughts?

[NewportLady]

At very minimum, the United States can help assure that Iraqis, both men and women, are given the right to vote, without interference from the religious or other regimes, including husbands, in the country. How else can we ascertain what the majority of the people want?

Although it would be foolish to assume that overnight Iraq can become a democracy similar to our American democracy, we can help them implement certain principles of democracy that in turn may help bring order to that region. :)

[Nic]

There isn't a Western-style democracy anywhere the Arab world. Why should there be? Culturally and historically different ways to organise society and achieve social justice have prevailed. At heart is the role of religion in society, with the Koran providing heavily prescriptive guidance about how secular affairs should be organised and expecting religious leaders to act as arbiters. How can "democratic" leaders operate when most people believe a higher authority prevails in a very practical and impactful way?

Taking our own view of democracy to Iraq makes us look like a foreign power imposing our will. We can contribute to securing economic improvement, even seek to get a government there to respect human rights, but we will lose in the end if we impose even a rudimentary form of US democracy.

Who do you think is committing all these outrages in Iraq? Why are they getting more numerous and not less so? The odd Al Quaida infitrator is involved - perhaps; a load of dyed-in-the-wool Ba'athists - for sure; a load of passionately religious people, indubitably. But almost certainly all of these groups are supported by a large number of ordinary Iraqis who see us as just an occupying army.

[NewportLady]

Trouble is if you start thinking in terms of religion, and religious leaders, then the question becomes: Which Muslim sect will rule? Sunni or Shiite?

I guess the separation of church and government is not a concept understood in that region. Unless Iraqis begin understanding that notion, there will probably be many religious wars in their future, as each group tries to take control.

It was "the large number of ordinary Iraqis" who wanted to be rid of Sadam, and his sons. So are we to believe they now want another dictatorship to emerge? Don't know what kind of government will work in Iraq, but many Iraqis seem to appreciate Capitalism, and its rewards, just fine.

[@@di]

There isn't a Western-style democracy anywhere the Arab world. Why should there be? Culturally and historically different ways to organise society and achieve social justice have prevailed.

I don't think gender and race equality, religious tolerance, freedom of movement and speech, right to an education and access to courts are western-style democratic values.



Taking our own view of democracy to Iraq makes us look like a foreign power imposing our will. We can contribute to securing economic improvement, even seek to get a government there to respect human rights, but we will lose in the end if we impose even a rudimentary form of US democracy


I have always felt for democracy to flourish it must be fought for not given to someone. Unless Iraqis rise up and decide to free themselves nothing is going to happen in Iraq. There must personal loss and sacrifices are required for democracy to flourish.
If the US had gone into Iraq to help revolutionary forces fighting Sadaam, I would supported the war.
On another note if any country in the Arab world is going to be democratic, I would hedge my bets on Iran. They have all the makings of people rising up and insisting on change.



At heart is the role of religion in society, with the Koran providing heavily prescriptive guidance about how secular affairs should be organised and expecting religious leaders to act as arbiters. How can "democratic" leaders operate when most people believe a higher authority prevails in a very practical and impactful way?

Religion and democracy are completely incompatible: one is based on faith [all men are NOT created equal, at least in the Judeo-Christian world] and the other science [All men are created equal]. If you a firm believer in Christianity or Islam, someone like me would go to hell.
Much of Europe was ruled by religion for centuries. It took time but slowly they all became democratic. Education also has a lot to do with it. Arabs were leaders in the scientific world, but somewhere along way they felt that education didn't serve any purpose. Since then its been a downward spiral.

[Nic]

I don't think gender and race equality, religious tolerance, freedom of movement and speech, right to an education and access to courts are western-style democratic values.

Apart from gender, Islam has a pretty good track record on the rest - relatively speaking. In fact, Islam was probably more advanced than Christian society until the rise of modern capitalism and the subsequent birth of modern democracy. The problem with Islam is that the Koran is meant to be taken literally, locking Islam into a time warp, whereas the Bible is more open to interpretation and has allowed society to evolve in more secular directions.